The Smell of Bullshit part 7 – Lush, thrush, rash

I don’t think this post title has assonance or alliteration, but it has something. Is there a term for when the last sound of words is the same?

Anyway, yeah, Lush, rash, thrush.

I should start by saying that I have had eczematous skin since I was very little. It’s generally a stress reaction, but it also reacts to certain toiletries and cosmetics. Over the years I’ve worked out that mineral oil-based toiletries upset my skin, and certain shampoos – some of the “for blondes” shampoos by big-name hairdressers have left the palms of my hands with weeping blisters. For years I avoided the pleasure of bubble baths and nice “smellies” because they would bring me out in a rash. And I have to say that for the most part, I have been able to use Lush without any problem at all. Dream Cream is the only thing that works on my eczema (E45? Makes me itch. Diprobase? Makes me sweat and itch). I have been able to use Lush soap, shampoo, moisturiser, cleansers, shower gel, bath ballistics, bubble bars and pretty much everything else without any problems, although anything with cocoa butter makes me spotty. Facial products with cocoa butter make my face spotty, bath products with cocoa butter make my décolletage spotty (big shout out to all the yoghourt fans there). I have had bad reactions to very few Lush products – Ro’s Argan Body Conditioner smells beautiful but gives me an itchy burny reaction and is impossible to wash off properly so my hands stay greasy after using it, making it very difficult to put contact lenses in without them being smeary and uncomfortable all day. And Phoenix Rising ballistic also gives me an itchy burny rash. But other than that, in over a decade of using Lush, I haven’t had problems.

I think I’m quite lucky though, especially as my skin is sensitive and my immune system likes to party. Over the years I have seen numerous forumites raise numerous complaints about bad reactions to Lush, most notably burny skin rashes and thrush (note to North Americans, when Brits talk about thrush, they mean what you call a yeast infection – that horrible, white, cottage-cheesy vaginal discharge with the most appalling vaginal and vulval itching you can imagine. The sort of itch that makes you want to scrape your genitals over barbed wire just to make the itching stop, the sort of itch that makes you stand on one slightly bent leg while you rub the other knee up and down the supporting thigh in an attempt to scratch without sticking your fingers in your knickers). And there have been so many complaints about it that I’m finding it hard to believe it’s down to just sheer bad luck and individual sensitivity. And I’m finding it really hard to believe that Lush are unaware of these problems but that’s what company employees on the forum are saying this week. “We didn’t know, you haven’t told us, we’ll look into it.”  I’m going to quote now from both posts on the public forum and discussions I have had off-forum about it, without specifying who said what, to protect the dignity of my itchy-flapped friends. The first posts are from 2010 and 2011.

• Help us in our hour of need. We have been quietly grumbling about sore fannies in dark corners of the forum, but it is time for our ailing ladygardens to be brought into the light and there is only one woman for the job. We want you to deliver a special vagina monologue to the Mafia on behalf of our poorly nether regions. Tell them that there is something foamy in the water that is bringing a tear to our eyes. We are wearing cold flannels instead of pants and squirting Eau Roma water where the sun don’t shine. Only you can save us.

• My little girl also had a fannyzingtastic bath earlier this evening from an Abominable. She started crying about it and wincing after two minutes and I’ve had to cream her little ladybits as they were a bit red.

• Well, my ailing ninny has been paraded at length on this forum. So white, fizzbanger and a few others have affected me.  The symptoms have been, severe burning, swelling, itching, difficulty in passing urine, painful weeing, open wounds and watery discharge (sorry). Trying to sleep nekked with your legs open is not a good look.

• The minty shower emotishit thing hurt me so badly I was walking bandy! Hilarious but not really, and so white gave me actual cystitis that I had to go to the dr for antibiotics for. Its supposed to be a pleasure remember!!! Mint and fanny do not mix Lush.

• I had an Abombinaball last night (and have had a few before) and have had no problems with it (thank goodness) but with So White, I was dancing like James Brown (and screaming a bit like him too). On fire I was! It was agony.

• I had problems with So White – both in ballistic form and perfume form. The ballistic tortured my ladybits and the perfume brought me out in a rash. I’m not a fan.

• I don’t get vag problems from Lush baths, but they make the bottoms of my feet and often palms BURN AND ITCH like there is no tomorrow. Satsumo Santa was the worst I think.

• So White = Crotch Fire. Fizzbanger = Crotch Burn. Street Party = Crotch Party from Hell

• I made the mistake of using a WHOLE floating Island (I am normally very stingy with my Lush, as I only have a tiny tub and end up using quarter bars (or 8ths if it’s a comforter) – I had chronic minge mange for over a week (as well as a red rash all over)

• Pop in the bath gave me thrush. I’ve stopped using all bbs/ballistics/soap because they all have something that makes my bits sting.

• Now, there are willy issues, too. I treated the boy and myself to a lovely bath (I think it was Ma bar) and aplied IRM lovingly to his bits(sorry for the details, but they’re necessary) thinking I was treating him to some pure honey nectar in a bottle and…he came out with a terrible rush down there. He refuses to take Lush bath with me now. I had to relish Christmas Eve and Melting Snowman on my own and to be honest, I’m not sure I’ll bother with the bath stuff. My arms were dry and itchy. But the poor boy…

• Honey bee and I do not see eye to eye either cone to think of it. It gave me loins of fire (and not in a good way)

• Iced wine gives me a horrible burning sensation. It took me a while to figure out what it was as I was using different things but my bits recoil in horror whenever I take the lid off it now.

• from a customer complaint point of view, this is something we don’t tend to hear very much about, which is why it’s important if you have had a bad time with a product that we get to know about it here in Customer Care (not Mail Order).  When products are tested, obviously part of the feedback we receive is whether our beautiful human testers have experienced any reactions or sensitivities, and this, if it appears to be a problem with a particular product, will be passed on to the product formulators to prevent it from being a problem when the product is released to our stores. That being said, sensitivities of this nature tends to be something individual to each person – if you’re sensitive ‘down there’, then perfumed products used in the bath may exacerbating this condition. That being said, if there are common products (e.g. So White) that are aggravating it for a number of people, maybe that’s something we can look at. [comment from Lush employee on the forum in 2010]

• I never had any problems that I remember till the last 2 years or so… makes me think it might be one of the changes in supply of a major ingredient (such as citric or bicarb) that might be the culprit, rather than the perfumes/oils that people tend to blame??? (That said, obviously the minty ones cause probs for many people – although did Ice Hotel and that xmassy minty one do the same? I don’t recall…) E.g. The Magic BBs I bought not only made my ladygarden itch like feckery, but brought my arms out in small blistery spots FFS. I was NOT impressed.

• I have quite sensitive skin in general and have to avoid certain things, but I wouldn’t class myself as someone with an especially sensitive downstairs. Since the problems with Lush I have been able to use other brands without incident.

• Though I have never had trouble with bbs in the past, I have now joined the ranks of flaming fannies.  I had a bath with 1/2 (!) a 3 Gold Rings and it hasn’t stopped burning since. Gave me proper thrush methinks and I so liked the scent of this.

• I have had terrible trouble lately and it’s not just me either. A straw poll of lush inclined friends with ladygardens has revealed that my poor flaps are not alone. I have wondered if something in the recipe has changed lately because I never had to have a problem.

So, that’s lots and lots of comments from 2010 and 2011, including one comment from the company, which of course means that since that date Lush have been aware of the problems some people have experienced. And now we’re in 2013 and things still aren’t sorted.

• Would Trading Standards be the people to contact about fiery fallulah? Because I’m fucked if I’m having my emails read out in the lush office about my lady garden.

• I went to the nurse once and she physically recoiled from poor my flaps of fire. She said it was one of the worst cases she’s seen and gave me tablets, cream, pessaries by the boat load and said if it happened again they’d have to refer me to a specialist. As soon as I realised it was happening to other people and I stopped using the products I haven’t had it until this last week. From a stashed bubble bar!

• I had proper big pustule type spots and it was so red and swollen I think it looked like I’d turned inside out. I could barely sit down and was having to pour water on myself to go for a wee. I’ve had it from Flying Saucers gel, Aura Suavis gel.

• My feet burned like shit with volcano and I’m not allergic to any of the ingredients. A friend is currently having a similar reaction to mumkin

• Oh, that bloody thing that smelled like rotten eggs brought me up in welts and burningness, and when I said about it on the forum an employee was like ‘well I wouldn’t use it on the decolletage’. Yeah cheers. And a few weeks back I has a Gingerbread House/Glogg bath, then sat down to do some work, and actually had to send J out to the chemist because I thought my bits were going to burn right off. It fucking killed. And for some reason I didn’t connect it, not even when I had another Gingerbread House bath the next week and the same thing happened, until someone said on here about her problem with it. And as for the bloody (literally) sugar scrubs…

• It’s a strange thing, isn’t it? On the one hand, it could be that we’re overthinking it and putting everything down to Lush being dreadful – which is perhaps *slightly* unfair; e.g. I got on fine with the haircare, but when I changed to TBS banana shampoo and conditioner I developed dandruff for the first time ever. On the other, it seems like a bit of a coincidence that the problem I had with an appallingly itchy breast (to the extent that the doctor sent me for a scan to see if there was something wrong with the implant) went away as soon as I cut down dramatically on Lush SG/bath products.

And

• I stocked up on Gingerbread Houses when they were in Retro but after reading other people’s experiences with burned bits (and putting two and two together about the raging cystitis I got after my last GB bath, which for some reason I thought was unrelated), I just don’t really want to be using this stuff any more.
• I threw the last of my lush in the bin. I had not used any for months and the first bath I have with a ballistic in it I get thrush
• I honestly don’t know why I carried on using Lush hair care as long as I did. I seemed to have convinced myself that it was me that was the problem, when my hair turned into a tangled mess of knots, when it was lank and flat a day after washing, when my scalp itched like buggery, I thought that that was just how my hair/scalp “was”, it was my fault for colouring it, maybe it was my water? Was it to hard or to soft? Anything but blame the product.
• I would like it to be recorded that by using solely Lush showergels over the last 2 years or more my skin on my arms and legs became so dry that a dermatologist in London banned me from using ANY body products on my skin other than prescribed emollients and creams. Doing so helped my skin recover somewhat, but I got bored of not being able to use scented products that I began to use lush again- the dryness returned immediately. Then I got so angry with lush that I stopped using my shower gels, bought a £2 reduced bottle from the body shop. Full of chemicals I am sure, but my skin has returned to how it was when I was only using emollients and creams that I was prescribed. Occassionally I am tempted to shower with rose jam or twilight showergels, but can immediately see the drying effect on my skin, so its very much a case of having to use small amounts on rare occasions. for the health of my skin. By dry skin I mean the skin on my shins was so dry that it was cracked and bleeding and itching, agrovating my chronic urticaria and dermographism and causing large flakes of skin to fall off.
• To be perfectly honest I just can’t be bothered to list anything anymore. I’m tired. I’m ill and tired and I just can’t being myself to care for the majority of these products ever again. I like the shower gels (but I do find them a bit drying) but the bubble bars and ballistics have a long history of causing any number of vaginal problems and that is all over this forum and yet it is still occurring. Thrush or cystitis is no joke but nothing is being done to remedy this as it has been going on for years with no change whatsoever. I imagine any other company being horrified to hear such reports but not here. Separating moisturisers has been going on for years too and the scentless products is well documented. It’s all been said so many times that I for one am just too tired of it to repeat it all again and for what – for it to be ignored again. Anyone who still has the stamina will still be reporting the same problems for years to come and still nothing will be done. It’s the definition of insanity to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. Mark likes to think we’re insane though. I’ve heard it said that he thinks we’re all fat and/or crazy and I guess we’ve at least been the latter for trying to get things fixed for so many years even though nothing ever changed. The joke was on us I suspect for caring. Well the caring has been a little one-sided for me.
• I think because we were told we were being listened to on here and that it was being ‘looked into’ we didn’t raise each individual issue separately and again. I know I haven’t mentioned my thrush directly to customer care. For one thing it’s an embarrassing thing to discuss. Personally knowing that a male or anyone without any confidentiality agreement, may then discuss my burning flaps puts me off. I used a half of an stashed Christmas Eve last week after using no Lush in the bath for months and guess what? I have thrush. Lush are also in the unique position that their products have no batch codes on them and disappear after use. So what exactly are we supposed to do about the bath stuff? And having heard that forumites are called fat, lazy and crazy, I am really, really reluctant to discuss a delicate lady issue. And we really have believed we are being listened to on here. Because sometimes there is evidence of it. I mentioned that my little girl had had to leap out of a bath saying ‘mummy it’s burning, it’s burning my tuppence’ and XXX immediately offered to send me a box of different goodies from her shop as that was where I’d had purchased that item. I declined but it gave me the impression notice was taken.
• I have a lot of baths and use a lot of different products, and the only time I’ve had to make a rush for the cystitis medicine has been after using Lush products. I’ve got about 10 Gingerbread Houses sitting in a box which I simply can’t use, because it hurts. Radox doesn’t do that, and nor does Future Primitive, and nor does Enchanted, and nor does (continue ad infinitum).
• All Lush haircare made my scalp a complete mess. Lumps of it would scale and fall into my hair and looked disgusting. I constantly felt like my head was dirty. I asked Mark once about what I should use and was told Soak and Float and Snake Oil, and perservere. It just got worse and my actual hair was a tangled mass of frizz. Dry, split ends and in an awful state. My hairdresser would wash my hair for me and tell me to change my shampoo all the time but I said I wanted to stay with Lush because I believed it all…that it was natural and therefore going to be better for me in the long run.  When I eventually ended up with patches of bleeding, raw scalp all around my hairline, I gave in. I started using cradle cap shampoo until it healed up and then carried on since then with (and I am ashamed to admit this on Lush’s forum) Head and Shoulders. For three years now, it’s all I have used and my scalp is clear and pink and free from flakes and pain and soreness. I never need to condition it either, and it just works. I will add that before the Lush thing, I tried everything on the market for my flaky and mental scalp and not one of them made it worse, just didn’t make it better.

After several pages of new complaints this week, Lush’s response was

As you know, we gather all feedback in our office and where product concerns are involved we ensure these get to the right department. After making some checks on the rock-like bubbles with our Bubble Room I can tell you that no change has been made in production so to see such a number here is puzzling. One thing we believe is that each person is very unique and their skin/hair care needs should be treated in exactly the same way. The range of products covers a variety of different tastes/preferences/hair/skin, that would hopefully mean that everyone can use it but as with so many things – what works for one may not be quite right for the next. This is also a shame to hear of because it isn’t something we receive a great deal of feedback on, this would be useful for us to log. With that in mind, if you have a concern about any products you have we would welcome your feedback. We will require purchase info to get batch details (receipts are ideal) and we may ask you to return them so we can look at it further (as you may have heard, we now have a freepost label to help with that). If you have already been in touch I trust that everything was resolved for you but look forward to hearing from you otherwise.

I agree that these things may have come up elsewhere on the forum but on the other side of things I hope you can understand that receiving that feedback directly allows us to collate the relevant details and put things right with the customer wherever necessary. The forum may be a good place to air feedback/queries but we really do prefer to proceed with solutions with the customer directly wherever we possibly can.

You are also right that we are unable to see the shop storage from our office but we do have access to the warehouse below us and good links with the shop customer service team, it is not something that has been brought to our attention as fully before but now it has been, it will be monitored by both myself and the bubbles room. We aren’t expecting customers to log everything as this is part of our role, we are requesting pieces of information in order to help us do that for you as efficiently as possible.

I’m not expecting everyone to repeat themselves because you know that we know about those aspects, and I can only assure you that they really are being looked at. Myself and the team here are really wanting to resolve current issues and also let you know that we are here should you need to get in touch.

The more feedback we have the better and will allow us to gather more comprehensive information in order to address any issues that may be raised; we really do care and we really do want to make the products and service enjoyable for you

Unfortunately, they don’t think to explain how a thrushy customer is supposed to return the offending bath item to the company, given that it has already been dissolved and disappeared down the plughole. I also really like the bit where they say they don’t get a lot of feedback about it. That’s what they said two or three years ago after several pages of complaints on the forum. And believe me, if previous versions of the forum still existed, I’d be able to quote posts from there with exactly the same complaints.

It’s obvious that Lush products are causing serious problems for some Lush customers. That might not be because the products are inherently unfit for purpose; it really might be just that some people have rare reactions to them. But I would argue that a bath product which leaves the user’s vulva covered in massive pustules probably isn’t fit to be used. And I would argue that a company which has been aware that these kinds of issues have been going on for three years and more possibly isn’t all that bothered about sorting them out.

If you’re one of the lucky majority who can use these products without symptoms, that’s great. If you’re one of the sizeable minority who has a bad reaction – don’t just put it down to bad luck and don’t let Lush tell you they’re surprised to hear about it. If they are surprised to hear, it’s only because they haven’t wanted to listen.

(PS Sorry I buggered up the formatting. I can’t be arsed to sort it out; it’s nearly bedtime).